Just a thought.
The next paragraph is a translation from the book "the paradoxes of life" by Tommy Hellsten.
"It is enough to stand beside another person. She does not need to be 'helped' or to be advised. One does not need to resolve anything for her, nor does she need to be clung on. She need not be protected from the truth. Nothing can be demanded from her, she can not be changed, but one does not need to abandon her. With her one can share humaneness. With her one can be on an journey of exploration and adventure."
Tilaa:
Lähetä kommentteja (Atom)
Tekstit
There become times in some people's lives, where one questions whether he/she actually is able to receive unconditional love. It is easy to shift the blame to one's past. But in reality, all that matters is what you do now. For example, in my case I would say that when I was young, I wasn't accepted the way I was. Certain things were demanded. I always wonder how this might echo to the present. Maybe it is that I find it difficult to accept some people's deepest essence, if it somehow is in contoversy with my views. I feel I should learn to respect each and everyone as they are. To understand myself that I am loved. To understand I am loved.. I am able to radiate love, give it and receive it.. unconditionally.
VastaaPoistaInteresting reasoning.. How ever I would like know that from where does this unconditional love come from and i mean the idea of people to want/need/pursue/have this? This subject came to my mind because, it can be confronted through large amount of different people quit easily nowadays...some are on a spiritual journey and some on something else. Now i don't know whether you consider yourself as a part of these "cults" that ill mention next but Im just curious to have your opinion because you seem to have somewhat same mentality, but then again not completely.. (Ill apologize for the word cult, couldn't find a better word.)
VastaaPoistaIve spent unintentionally time reading peoples post about this "spiritual journey or spiritual way of life" that they talk about and embrace. And i don't want to sound offensive but all these (examples) "I AM University Consciousness" or "Abraham Hicks - philosophy" are seriously annoying me. Why? because whether we talk about Zeitgeist, Spiritual "cult" or any religious cult they all work approximately in the same way...by evangelizing/converting people. I guess followers of Abraham Hicks don't like the word but then again it awaking/evangelizing/converting/etc all have the same purpose at the end of the day.
So Im interested to know why would people need/want to gain this feeling of unconditional love? I took it as an example, because all of these "societies" seem to center around it.
I get the feeling when talking to these people or reading their facebook statuses that they try to achieve it to become a better person, which would automatically lead to feeling that they keep their selves better than people who are not striving to the same goal. Does everybody need to achieve this "unconditional love or love for everybody" -feeling to be satisfied with their life. And with all due respect the way it sounds may be a state of mind for some ideal place (different from this world), but not in real life. I mean of course would be nice to reach out of our body (real life) sometimes to get a euphoria or so :) but after all weed need be present in the real life almost 100%,to live here on this planet right? That is if you believe in this reality... :)
Not trying to attack to anybody, for all i care people can live the way they like and so on. Im just using this critical thinking -approach, which i tend to apply i many situations and as often as possible.
Hi Anonymous and thanks for your insights!
VastaaPoistaAdmittedly, all the institutions or societies you referred to (or actually, in general) have some view of how things should be. After all, what would be the point in having this kind of entity, if it didn’t have anything to say or no agenda whatsoever. I do understand how these kinds of attempts to manipulate individuals can be viewed as hostile, especially when they are against one’s own views of the world. The fact is, people are different - some people appreciate this and that way of thinking, and the others don’t. Personally, I appreciate when people are able to be open to question everything, including themselves. This way, people are able to see things from various viewpoints, which, in my opinion, is the best way for a person not to become attached to a certain way of seeing things, as it in many cases is with these “cults”. Always be open-minded, even though you might appreciate some views more than others. It’s your life and you decide what you want to contribute to, if to anything at all.
You are correct about absolute unconditional love being out of this world.. but equally so are dreams and ideals. They are things, towards which most of us want to strive for, but no one actually gets there, ever. It is of the utmost importance to realize that “the chase is better than the catch” :), meaning your (self-aware) pursuit towards your goal (e.g., your wildest dreams) is the main thing.. not the actual reaching of the goal per se. “I realised I had the game wrong: the goal was to find out who I already was.” For me, living life is not to discover so much the external world than it is to discover myself and getting to know myself, because in this way I can get into better touch with myself and the rest of the world. This feeling of unity is one of the key factors behind the term “unconditional love”, in my opinion.
Unconditional love for me means a state, where one accepts all that is. It is not limited to just some human relationships, etc. It is to accept everything the way they are. You are you and I am I. He thinks like that and I think like that. It is the ideal state, but of course no one’s a seppä syntyessään :).
VastaaPoistaCorrect me if I’m wrong, but it seems you are more curious about why various “cults” spread their agenda everywhere and seemingly force people to change their views, instead of the definition of “unconditional love”. You want them not to try and change your views. As I mentioned earlier, all these institutions and societies want to spread their message. However, it is only and only up to you whether you embrace the message. Personally, I want to think and try stuff before accepting any views. It is how people should act in general, in my opinion. I also think that it is you who is responsible for your reactions when some “cult” tries to indoctrinate you with their own agenda. It is not their fault, it is your fault if you become aggravated or whatnot – everyone is responsible for their own reactions. People see the world always from their own perspectives, but the perceptions can always be altered, if there is will. No one needs to, but it is an option, if you feel like it.
I don’t know why a generic person would need to gain the feeling of unconditional love. It just happens so that I know it would be the thing for me. This is not something I read about in the first place – it is something I have gained experience on, and from that experience I have concluded it is the way I would like to live. This idea of ideal living has been building up in me through life experience gained so far.. For everyone it is up to themselves how they want to live and if they need/want to have this “unconditional love” in their lives. Who am I to judge. However, I know what kind of people I personally like the most. It is the people whose views do not stem from fear, but more so from love. I have noticed that people who have tendency not to have fear in their thoughts, in their speech, no hostility towards other people in any situations, regardless of who these people might be.. who are honest and open about stuff. They are usually the ones I get along better than people with less of these qualities. Just a personal view, nothing else. What's your view?
"I get the feeling when talking to these people or reading their facebook statuses that they try to achieve it to become a better person, which would automatically lead to feeling that they keep their selves better than people who are not striving to the same goal."
VastaaPoistaI don't see anything wrong in trying to be a better person (whatever that is), if the person doing it deeply believes in what he/she is doing. Again, it is not for anyone else to say, except for the person him/herself, what is right for him/her. And if other people feel they are somehow defective, because they don't endorse the same ideals that, for example, I do, it is not anyone else's problem but the ones', who makes it a problem for themselves.
I believe everyone should be able to express whatever they want, be it a facebook status update or whatever. Everyone should pursue their own dreams, not feel bad about for not pursuing someone else's.
P.S. OK, I feel bad about myself when ppl all the time want to bring to my attention via heiaheia how many minutes they have exercised today and whatnot :). Nobody's perfect.. :P
Thanks for the input again, and in no-way am i attacking on your opinions. i think it is great to share thought, for one i love deep conversations. Anyway back to the interesting sharing views-part :)...
VastaaPoista"Correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems you are more curious about why various “cults” spread their agenda everywhere and seemingly force people to change their views, instead of the definition of “unconditional love”."
This is not actually so, i dont really care about the cults since they are build in away that people follow some people...meaning everything is based on more or less on one or couple of peoples ways to pursue things and to approach things/people/whatever...How ever this is already against the ideology that i was going to comment next:
"Unconditional love for me means a state, where one accepts all that is. It is not limited to just some human relationships, etc. It is to accept everything the way they are. You are you and I am I."
First of all i don't agree thoroughly on this, because i pursue self-development in every way...and if you think about the quote above, to my understanding it is against to development. I mean, I accept the persons as individuals and by no means im not trying to make all of the people think like i do, but then again i try help people (close to me) out on things (it can be stuff in school/work/social life/etc...), which usually is related to the way of thinking/see things and i hope my friends/other people do the same for me if needed.
We all have our own way of understanding things/dilemmas.. And i think it is the most important thing to learn from another people. You get my point and paradox of this accepting people as they are vs development?
Im a bit tired so there is this one question you gave to me and ill try to answer it. I may forgot a lot i wanted to say, but ill probably share my opinions from time to time :)
VastaaPoistaAnyway this...
"I have noticed that people who have tendency not to have fear in their thoughts, in their speech, no hostility towards other people in any situations, regardless of who these people might be.. who are honest and open about stuff. They are usually the ones I get along better than people with less of these qualities. Just a personal view, nothing else. What's your view? "
I like interesting people with passion about life and the mysteries involved in it. I couldn't generalize the characteristics on the people that i like. However the people that i consider my real friends have a twinkle in their eyes but serious discussions can be held at any time. From this point of a view i could say that people sharing some extremely alternative views may not be the ones i enjoy spending my time.
Strictly speaking i do have people close to me who are pursuing things that I consider pretty alternative. However then there has to be something to compensate these things because if I dont agree on these things then usually they dont/cant play a big role in the relationship between me and the other person. For example people seriously working and believing in greenpeace would be irritating to me, because i like the cause the greenpeace is working, but i dont believe in the organization of that big being completely as good as the pretend.(Greenpeace only an example here)
So you see i dont believe many of these fairy tales that many of the alternatively living people do, for that reason i cant believe people believing somethings that just are too good to be true. And i cant understand people who are not questioning these kind of things. To me they are trying to feel better by believing that they are doing good things via something...generally accepted as good.
I would like to hear your opinion on this as well...if you dont mind?
Almost forgot.. the key word here i like people who are genuine/real...and if i sense any hypocrisy on people, then i dont usually waste my time on them.
VastaaPoistaThe concept of unconditional love for me is yet another way of getting to know myself, to develop myself. Still, it is not the only way in which I want to develop. I don’t see how pursuing a state of unconditional love would prohibit other type of development. Could you elaborate..? Do you mean that by pursuing this ”one thing” it inhibits development in the other aspects of life? I do not see it so.
VastaaPoistaDoes me saying ”I would like to learn to give and receive love unconditionally” make me want to change other people? I strive towards the state where I would accept people the way they are, no matter what their views are. Simply put, some views I consider to be more relevant for myself, but I do not want to condemn other people just because they think differently.
Considering your question about the alternatively living people.. I can’t speak for them, of their motives. If they really believe that by working for, e.g., greenpeace they are able to gain happiness for themselves, then let them do it. We don’t know what their motives behind their actions are, and frankly it doesn’t even concern us. All I know, is what I do, and why I do. Regardless of what any people think, they still can be wonderful persons, with whom I can have just as good times as with some non-alternative living persons :).
This kind of communication is fruitful, because we can learn from one another. Thank you for your opinions!
Well the way i have understood it this unconditional love-thing is that it is pretty dominant way of living, which then again is something that could be achieved only by living it to the fullest...meaning that it should and will affect in almost every aspect of your life. Im just saying that whenever one chooses to do things on a way that aims to a specific goal, one closes the other ways.
VastaaPoistaI find it relavent here to mention that i think life is all about choices and no-one can have "everything". So beleiving in some specific way (like unconditional love) will almost certainly close others, which is why i support no any specific way, because i dont believe there is only one way to do things "right" or some universal things to achieve. This brings me to the question that why is it so that people dont believe themselves enough to learn and keep on going their own way. To find their own goals. Guidelines are good because there are several things that need to be remembered and of course everything we "know" now is based on basic things that we have learned at some point before.
Again I would like to compare unconditional love to for example christian religion. Where people believe something alike (I think it is probably the same thing in other words) and have their own way to approach this pursued state of mind. And again by no means i despise these religional or unconditional love ways to live life.
So as a summary i think to be open minded, which i think is probably the key to many things involved here, is not through any specific way. I think if these ways like you said helps you to learn something about yourself it is good, but these alternative ways most certainly will reduce your chance to to do choices by yoursel, because the stronger the guide line the less choices you see and consider as a opportunities. But then again that is just the way I see it. And no matter how stupid some coihces seem i still want to be able to see them objectively and not according to any main goals. Because who nows...today i feel i have clear goals in some way tomorrow i may have new ones.
Tell me if im not making sense at all :).
If I had to believe only in one thing, it would be love. It is the force driving humanity to better themselves.
VastaaPoistaI believe all people believe in something - even you :). Otherwise your life would be quite chaotic and random, with you always changing the way you do things. But I do understand what you mean by not wanting to choose any specific way of doing things. I think alike. I feel like I never want to stick onto a certain way of doing things, instead I do "what intuitively feels right" in any given situation. That being said, I also believe one can have, and live according to, "a grand scheme of living" - trying to pursue love in its purest form. It's like a living strategy, whereas the above-depicted "intuitive living" could be called as living tactics. In the army I was taught that by the term strategy we mean long-term planning, whereas tactics refer to how this planning is implemented in everyday's decisions.
So, I'm still convinced I can live according to a certain strategy, even though I can make "tactical" decisions that do not necessarily conform with the outlines of the strategy.
For an average person, it is easier to follow the example set by other members of the society instead of setting their own goals. However, in many cases it seems people just want similar stuff, such as kids, car, house and other stuff. They rarely want to question the prevalent way of doing things in the society.
First of all if this can be implemented correctly in this case of unconditional love.
VastaaPoista"I'm still convinced I can live according to a certain strategy, even though I can make "tactical" decisions that do not necessarily conform with the outlines of the strategy."
Then i think it sounds okay :).
I think if people had to believe in something that should be themselves as individuals. Not criticizing the role of "love" in the world. However i do feel that it can be sensed and seen in several different ways. I mean for example mother´s love to her children is not always shown in very sensible ways but afterward the child may understand that it was indeed love though it felt like something totally different. I think these kind of actions play a big role even though people are grown-ups. I brought this up because (again) to my understanding the unconditional love is a sort of all-around positive thing as everyone and everything is seen in a positive way (incisively said, i know)...? Not sure though but that happens to be the way i see people trying to implement it. And for this reason i do not understand/agree on it. Not everything has to be positive things and everything does not (need to) give us positive feelings, but the way people usually look in to things could be (in general) more positive, that i agree.
"For an average person, it is easier to follow the example set by other members of the society instead of setting their own goals. However, in many cases it seems people just want similar stuff, such as kids, car, house and other stuff. They rarely want to question the prevalent way of doing things in the society."
This is something that I agree 100% with you. But i think this is something that has to do with the life cycle/the circle of life of a person. I believe this is due to the fact that if persons has not (any) "big" goals of his her own, then this "by the book" life is the easiest way of living. Because it is not so easy to diverge from it when most of your friends do it, it is probably the fear of losing something that is generally achieved in some point of ones life. And "if not living the same way as most of people, will i ever be able to get it?" :)
Well this is an interesting topic which I feel i kind of spreading in to some specific but very broad subjects. I have to say that writing about these subjects is really hard because there are so many things that are connected. Also my mind starts pretty easily to wonder around and the text starts to be hard to read.
-John Smith ;)
I see your point. You want to see people make their own decisions instead of following a path imposed from the external world. I agree.
VastaaPoistaA year ago I was quite black & white regarding this topic. I thought if a person decided to live her life according to how most of the other people lived, it was a sign of not believing in themselves as individuals. Lately, I've come to realize that it is not necessarily so. Some people do this decision completely aware that it is the best thing they can do for themselves. Who are we then to judge if they want to live like the other people do?
Yes, unconditional love is an ideal as has been stated. Actual life has both positive and negative feelings, yes yes, and they are all equally valuable. For me, the choosing of love is more a question of "do I want to choose fear or love as my way of seeing the world?". I believe most people choose the former option, since the environment surrounding us makes us easily believe this world is a place, where everyone are out there only for themselves. I want to believe in something more.. gracious.
By following the path of love is not to avoid negative feelings but to embrace them with acceptance.
I do not judge people how they want to live their lives and i think we shouldnt, because people act in a way for a reason (many times).
VastaaPoistaCause and effect..
"By following the path of love is not to avoid negative feelings but to embrace them with acceptance."
Wise words indeed. However:
"do I want to choose fear or love as my way of seeing the world?"
I see choosing only one way from these two is not wise at all. There are things that can take advantage of only using one of these paths.
Fear can be quit useful sometimes, at least that i have experienced. Having more than one way of approaching and estimating things has helped me. Yet again there maybe more moments the "love" -approach could gain persons more.
"I see choosing only one way from these two is not wise at all."
VastaaPoistaYes, we live in a world where ideals (unconditional love) cannot be fully realized in practice. That's why it is sometimes easier to resort in "fear"-behavior.
So did we came to the conclusion that "unconditional love" -approach could be referred as to approach where people try to apply more positive ways of see new things that we come across every day in life? :)
VastaaPoistaMaybe it was the term itself and the way people seem to interpret it that made me come out of my cave and start/continue this conversation about this "new/old" thing some people try to get involved. Anyway it has been interesting and educational discussion. Im still pondering wether this was your/our definition of "unconditional love" or a "universal", which they teach these days?
That is one way of defining the meaning of unconditional love :). I believe everyone have their own meanings and ways of seeing it.
VastaaPoistaThey are all interconnected: unconditional love - acceptance - being present. Too detailed and formal definitions of things are best left unsaid, because you, your views and the world has a tendency to change. So do the definitions, they evolve all the time.
"The only constant in life is change".
Agreed and Well concluded. :)
VastaaPoistaBtw one thing came to my mind from this subject, since this topic and unconditional love was basically about word and definitions.
VastaaPoistaI think could guide line for everyday life is that "talk is cheap and people need be defined by their actions". And i mean this in the way that lot of people like to talk nice and kind words and how people should live and whats important..bla bla. Then again very few do anything. So I try not to talk about nice things and better world but to do more good things. And dont get me wrong i like deep conversations but all this world healing phrases people have...is nothing without actions.
Like Elvis said: Little less conversation, a little more action please. :)